Satan & Demons in Heaven:

Mar. 2007 I have read several verses with "and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. Does this imply that satan still has angels(for lack of a better word) in heaven? That there might be a house clening so to speak in heaven,or maybe a metaphor ? Also can you suggest addition web sites that might help in my personal studies. Scottie Dear Scottie; Thank you for your questions. I'll answer your last question first, concerning other websites. I don't realy have a list of websites because I haven't had much time recently to browse though sites and check content. I will give you a warning though, be extremely careful about the information that you read on the internet. Just because someone has a website, that doesn't make them an expert on the Bible. All it makes them, is a person that has the ability to build a website. That warning would apply to my website as well. You should check everything you read through the filter of God's Word. If it doesn't line up with what you read in the Bible, then disregard it. Anyone can build a website on any topic without any formal training in that field. So, you have to be careful about the information you get from the internet. I would recommend a good study Bible. My personal favorite is the Thompson Chain Reference Bible. Also, I recommend a Matthew Henry Commentary. Both of those are excellent resources for Bible study and if you can't afford to buy them, you can get a copy from the library. OK, so, having given you the disclaimer... Let's look at the verses you mentioned. I did a search on the phase in question, " heaven shall be shaken" I found three verses in the New Testament that use that phrase. All three are from what's known as the Olivet Discourse. This is where Jesus is telling the disciples about the end times and the things that will be happening. I'll post the verses so that everyone will be able to read them: Mat 24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Mark 13:25-26 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory Luke 21:26 Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. All three of these verses are Jesus telling the disciples what the signs will be right before his return. This also matches what the prophet Isaiah said would happen before the "Day of the Lord." Isa 13:10-13 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. Joel 3:15-16 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. So, the prophets foretold this event and Jesus has said it will happen and then John sees this future event in a vision and records it in Revelation: Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. Rev 6:12-13 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. I don't believe this has to do with the angels/demons, and I don't believe this is a metaphor. I believe that this is a description of actual events that will take place just before Jesus' return to judge the earth. I believe that there are too many verses that describe this event to think that it is anything other than a description of actual, physical changes in the sun, moon, and stars. Prior to Jesus' return there will be incredible physical changes in the world around us and therefore it would make sense that there would also be many changes in the rest of the universe. We are told in scripture that the fall of man in the garden of Eden effected all of creation and that the earth has been "groaning" since that time. As we look forward to a time when our bodies wll be perfected by Christ, so to does the universe travail until Jesus returns: Rom 8:21-22 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Now, having said all that, there is a passage in Revelation 12 that is similar and in that passage, we are clearly dealing with a metaphor. It is describing Satan and the angels that departed with him: Rev 12:1-10 1) And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2) And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3) And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4) And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5) And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8) And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10) And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. In chapter 12 of Revelation, the woman is referring to the nation of Isreal, the child is Jesus, the dragon is Satan, the third part of the stars are the angels that fell with Satan. So lets look at this chapter in the order it's given. In verses three and four, Satain and the demons are cast to earth. Verse 5 covers the entire birth, life, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Then we move forward in time to the time of the tribulation, the first three and a half years. In verse 7, 8, and 9 there is a great war in heaven and Satan is cast out of heaven. So, this passage tells us that there will come a time in the future when Satan and his demons will in fact be banished from heaven, but, that time has not yet come. It is still in the future. As of right now, he still has access to the Throne and he is accusing us before to the Father day and night. We also see this in Job chapter one. Therefore, back to your original question; "Does this imply that satan still has angels(for lack of a better word) in heaven? That there might be a house clening so to speak in heaven..." The answer is YES. However, we know this from the passage in Revelation 12, not the ones in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke). I hope I have answered your question without making the subject more confusing. God bless and keep reading the Bible.

  Children in church:

Mar. 2007 How or what does the bible say about keeping our children interested in church? Is it unholy for a church to keep young children involved in games at church while the pastor is preaching? the children have no idea what the preacher is saying and they do get bored. Dave Dear Dave; The Bible tells us that it is our responsibility to teach our children God’s laws. This should be our first priority as parents. Look at the following verses: Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up Deu 6:20-25 And when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What mean the testimonies, and the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD our God hath commanded you? Then thou shalt say unto thy son, … the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us. Prov 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Notice that these verses are telling the parents to teach their children. It’s our job as parents. For the most part, the things discussed in a sermon are not geared for very young children and they become bored and fidgety. So, I don’t think there is anything wrong with having the young children leave the service. However, I think it would be a good opportunity to teach the children Bible verses or Bible stories rather than just playing games.